Saturday, November 18, 2006

Great Insight from Rod...

...and I'm totally serious, people. Here's something he said in a recent post with which I heartily agree. Excerpt:

Of course the concept of "hate" is much abused in our political discourse; when someone accuses a critic of "hate," more often than not it's a lame attempt to shut down an argument the respondent would prefer not to be having.

I think there is a lot of wisdom in that. Let's all take it to heart.


Blogger Jonathan Carpenter said...

Of course the concept of "hate" is much abused in our political discourse; when someone accuses a critic of "hate," more often than not it's a lame attempt to shut down an argument the respondent would prefer not to be having."

He ought to know considering how often he practices it.

8:15 PM  
Blogger pikkumatti said...

OTOH, sometimes "hate" is the only conclusion one can draw from certain debates. Best example is often encountered in Iraq War discussions. For example, when one gets responses like these:

. . . Halliburton

. . . Cheney shot somebody when he was hunting while drunk.

. . . Valerie Plame.

. . . Bush spies on American citizens using warrantless wiretaps.

. . . Saddam wasn't so bad -- remember when Rumsfeld shook his hand -- US troops terrorize women and children, you know kids, in the middle of the night.

. . . Halliburton.

. . . Bush lied -- people died.

. . . Chimpy McBushitler.

. . . If you vote for Bush, rape will be legal (from Cameron Diaz in 2004).

. . . Finding those who support torture in a Dallas church.

. . . and so on, it is difficult to conclude that such people are motivated by anything other than hate. Hate for Bush. Hate for America. Hate for God. Hate for people.

Seeing hate where it is in fact present is not a lame attempt to shut down an argument. Perhaps some who argue that it is are simply trying to avoid being called out for what they themselves are: haters.

8:30 AM  
Blogger pikkumatti said...

Actually, I should have said:

. . . Finding, in a Dallas church, those who support torture.

I'm not aware of torture being practiced in Dallas churches, except for homilies that run a bit long. ;-)

9:17 AM  
Blogger Diane said...

LOL re your link, Pikku. Did I ever mention that Rod is apparently a big Keillor fan who has been known to give us poor philistines grief when we dared to suggest that Keillor's no longer funny? ;) (Yea verily, it happened at Amy's blog, and I wwas one of those on the receiving end of Dreherite venom.)

9:32 AM  
Blogger pikkumatti said...

Better yet, Diane, you will find that the link refers to a column in Rod Dreher's own paper, where I first saw the story.

9:52 AM  
Blogger Pauli said...

I loved a lot of Lake Wobegone Days, e.g, the hilarious chapter entitled "Protestant". The Prairie Home variety show thingy is slightly amusing, but eye-glazing after about 15 minutes to this Gen-X-er. But, whoa, after reading that article... Tipsy or senile? Or with an unamusing agenda? Whichever the case, time to retire, grandpa Keillor.

Pikku, here's my point: what does it accomplish to accuse someone of hate, esp. some old grounch? Accusing him of having hemorroids is probably more accurate and no less useful in the debate.

10:26 AM  
Blogger pikkumatti said...

I think you're right, Pauli, in that it does nothing to accuse someone of hate.

My point was that hate in fact exists, and motivates some. And when there is hate, no further discussion is possible. Sometimes one has to simply conclude that and move on.

Regarding Mr. Keillor, I am a Minnesota boy (until the age of 22). So I, too, enjoyed much of Lake Wobegon Days (at least the part that wasn't bitter), and the earlier days of the radio show.

But back in the days of Compuserve, I had the opportunity to participate in an online Q&A with G. Keillor. Because it seemed to me that some of his work was pretty accurate about small town MN, I asked whether he went back to rural MN to get more material or a recent feel of the place. His answer (exact words -- I will never forget):

I'm a storyteller, not a sociologist.

Scratch one MN Boy from the Keillor Fan Club.

10:44 AM  
Blogger Diane said...

Off-topic: Check out Rod's post about the Polish exchange student who endured a horrific half-year with a fundamentalist family in Winston-Salem (the town where I sit even as I type).

Think Rod can't find a way to work a post about Protestant fundamentalists around to yet another bash of the Catholic bishops?

Think again.

Our Working Boy is OBSESSED. Absolutely obsessed.

And Mark Shea has the immortal crust to claim we're the obsessed ones? Good grief, we could take RodRay's correspondence course.

If this is basically a "decent" guy, I'd sure hate to meet an indecent one. :p

Happy Thanksgiving, y'all!!


11:33 AM  
Blogger Diane said...

Dreher's been pulling a Shea.

He posted what he was thankful for (for Thanksgiving) and invited his readers to chime in with what [i]they[/i] were thankful for.

My comments were pretty eloquent if I do say so, but alas, all comments were summarily wiped out by the Rodmeister, who chose to retain only a chosen few.

He also wiped out his own comments, which had included his thankfulness that he is spiritually "at peace" with his new church. (In one of my comments, I remarked that I was also spiritually "at peace" with my own Church--so much at peace, in fact, that I felt no compulsion to relentlessly bash anyone else's church or the bishops thereof.)

Perhaps it was that remark that spurred the Rodmeister's censorship. Or perhaps it was other remarks, which I missed, since I was doing that Real Life Family thing and all. Who knows?

All I know is--if you post something particularly cogent or eloquent or whatever chez Shea or RodRay, make sure you save it on your own hard drive first. LOL!

I would say something further (and juicier), but in this season of peace and goodwill, I'll refrain. :)


9:46 PM  
Blogger kathleen said...

well diane, it looks like benedict erased his own comments as well as yours, though he forgets to say so at 1026AM today. it appears this is his pattern: he reads comments criticizing him, understands that the criticisms therein are cogent so deletes what he wrote that provoked the criticism, but then very publicly bashes the critical commenter anyway. i guess he does the latter to save face. it's kind of like, "your criticism was valid, but you really suck for making it, you jerk!" which is bizarre, because he is always asking people for cues about how he should feel about things, yet when he gets negative feedback he reacts wiith extreme agitation.

8:08 AM  
Blogger Diane said...

Kathleen, thou hast touched it with a needle.

I'm gonna complain to BeliefNet, methinks, about Rod's anti-Catholic bigotry. The posts he summarily deleted (mine, at least) were peans of thanksgiving for my Catholic faith (as well as for my family, my home, the NC woods, my favorite novels & music & movies).

If Catholics cannot be allowed to extol their faith while tmatt can be allowed to glorify the singing at his parish (yeah, we all know Jesus died to preserve a certain aesthetic standard), then that is anti-Catholic discrimination. Couple that with RodRay's relentless bashing of the Catholic bishops and...well, I'm sure BeleiefNet won't want to become known as the harborer, aider and abetter of Anti-Catholic Bigots. ;)

More later--gotta go decorate the tree.

11:45 AM  
Blogger pikkumatti said...

I forced myself to go back to CrunchyBlog to see what was up (first time in 10 days, I'm proud to say).

Rodster's segue from the certainly-misreported-and-exaggerated Polish kid in the fundamentalist house to yet another slam at the Bishops and the Church makes me glad he's not a sportswriter at the Dallas paper. The sports pages would read like:

Cowboys win, 38-10, in a manner similar to the settlement between the clerical abuse plaintiffs and the Diocese.

Texas Tech Coach Bob Knight was accused of abusing a player in the huddle during a game last week. This is similar to the Catholic Bishops denying justice to the abused for the sake of the "Mission".

. . . and so on.

3:40 PM  
Blogger Diane said...

Pikku, I am laughing out loud. Truly.

BTW, pardon all the typos in my previous post. As I typed, I was being chivvied by my DH and kids, who were eager to commence the always pleasant task of untangling Christmas-tree lights.

4:22 PM  
Blogger Diane said...

BTW, I thought of going back to the Rodblog and posting that I was thankful for raindrops on roses and whiskers on kittens. But I think I've missed my moment. :)

9:39 PM  

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