That Much?
"Good grief, this is just a blog where I give my opinions. They're worth what you pay for them." -- Rod Dreher
Update, October 12th: It's worth noting that Rod's stated the obvious again, this time announcing that he's joined the Eastern Orthodox church, in a 5700-word essay that immediately attracted a lot of comments from all sides. I can understand counter-crunchies' wanting to comment in a less (hyper)active setting, so I think we should follow the lead of SiliconValleySteve and use this post's comment thread for commentary of our own...
Update, October 12th: It's worth noting that Rod's stated the obvious again, this time announcing that he's joined the Eastern Orthodox church, in a 5700-word essay that immediately attracted a lot of comments from all sides. I can understand counter-crunchies' wanting to comment in a less (hyper)active setting, so I think we should follow the lead of SiliconValleySteve and use this post's comment thread for commentary of our own...
posted by Anonymous at 11:20 AM
32 Comments:
when rod says "good grief" and "dang", that's when you know you got to him.
I'm hoping myself to prod him into the occasional "dadburn" and "tarnation", as they have the requisite retro tang denoting the authentic.
I guess what he's admitting is that beliefnet is an advertiser-supported site. That's where his paycheck (probably just beer money?) comes from. Haven't seen the chakra beads in awhile though, just mega-corps like AOL, book clubs and "dating" sites.
You know, I kinda like you guys. And I just hope you never decide to _dis_like me :-)
Seriously, yours is the most thoughtful combox I've encountered in a long time.
In my extremely limited acquaintance(ship?) with Rod (he commissioned a DMN op-ed from me a few years back) we got along well. We're both Gen-Xers with the same cultural references and snark; for me, that covers a multitude of sins.
But the cruncy thing is definitely NOT for me and was a turn off. Oh well. Just wanted to say I appreciate your posts.
Bubba, the paperback release date is obviously it. he yammers on and on about his catholicism and NFP in that book. a host of crunchy apostles in there are catholic. and if this book is seen to be coherently catholic, it sets him up for the next take-down book handily.
As for me, I am left wondering how Rod's description of his conversion to the Hare Krishnas or scientology could be substantially different than the explanation he offers today. and I am utterly charmed by the 2 cents, i mean 2 drachmas, offered by various orthodox commenters.
maybe i meant 2 rubles, not 2 drachmas. i'm unclear on that. speaking of which -- sorry this just makes me laugh: "Vladika Dmitri's" bio:
"Robert Royster was born in a small Texas town to Protestant parents. In 1941, at the age of 18, after intense study culminated by an interview with Patriarch Athenagoras, he was converted to the Orthodox faith at the Holy Trinity Greek Orthodox Church in Dallas."
i'm just wondering what's so "catholic (small c)" and "universal" about having to translate everything, including one's name and title, into Greek or russian. but clearly Brother Royster of Rural Texas just wasn't what he (or rod, for that matter) was after.
"He would do untold harm to many people."
Steve, do you think? I think he has become a laughingstock. but then again, i've been observing him for a few months now, and i know what a dolt he is. his arguments are utterly unsupported.
but i have my issues with catholic hierarchy. if it makes them uncomfortable, maybe it will be for the best. God works in mysterious ways.
"I've always thought there was an "I want to play cowboys and indians" quality to Rod's search."
unfortunately i think there is that quality not only to rod's "search", but to rod's "life". he's playacting, even if he doesnt' know it. the inconsistencies, the hypocrisy, the utter lack of self-awareness while he simultaneously natters on about how self-aware he is .... it's actually fascinating to watch.
bubba, all i can say is it is amazingly coincidental that the release date of the paperback coincides precisely with this all-important-mystery-obligation that required Rod to keep under wraps the earth-shattering news of his conversion. is there anyone in the world who really has something important riding on the fact that Rod should "officially be catholic" 3 mos. longer than he actually was? seems to me the fact we are expected to buy this hook line and sinker is equally absurd.
is there anyone in the world who really has something important riding on the fact that Rod should "officially be catholic" 3 mos. longer than he actually was?
Is that really so hard to believe?
I can think of a couple of possibilities. Perhaps they'll be seeing some friends or relatives following the birth of their baby whom they feel they need to tell face-to-face. Perhaps he wanted to time it somehow relative to his daughter's initiation. Perhaps their Orthodox pastor asked them to wait, lest they get a case of buyer's remorse and bring scandal to his church.
It's probably none of these things, but they and similar ideas strike me as far more likely than an underhanded scheme to fool the thousands of people planning to buy the paperback edition in the first week who would change their minds if they found out he had broken communion with the Catholic Church.
Speaking of underhandedness, I don't see his act of schism as needing a financial motive. What he did several months ago is perfectly in keeping with what he was writing in Catholic blog comment boxes several years ago.
Tom, for months Dreher was already blogging that he was going to services at the orthodox cathedral. he yammered on about how great the place was for weeks on end, that he socialized there, etc. he was all but converted then he shut up about it for a short time. (silly me, i thought it was because those telling him it was immature and self-serving to broadcast his conversion dance were getting through to him.) the official announcement was just a matter of time, *by his own design*. if he wanted his conversion to be a secret, he did an exceptionally sorry job of keeping it so.
I don't care what Rod's stated motives are. I don't even care what he believes his motives are. Rod's motives are a mystery even to himself. He is filled with so much hostility and bitterness and grandiosity that of course he will arrange things like a paperback release to facilitate more attention to himself. and if it's one more twist of the knife in the back of catholics, so much the better. it's called being passive aggressive, and those who enjoy doing this sort of thing aren't always aware of their own propensity for it.
Mark Shea and dreher should be complaining about the orthodox priest who spilled the beans, not Carpenter. and if it was so very important to Rod to keep things a secret then he shoulda made that known to the "gandalfian" orthodox clerics.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Dreher may as well write, "I am a person who never writes about myself. i never use the pronoun "i". I'm just not interested in writing about myself and that's why I don't write about myself." it's kind of like the opposite of res ipsa loquitur: the thing contradicts itself.
oh brother, get a life stefan. i don't give a hoot.
btw, since when is it uncharitable to point out that someone if from texas and is named robert royster? sounds like your prejudices speaking, not mine.
I'm shocked at Kathleen Reilly's uncharitable comments about His Eminence, Archbishop Dmitri of Dallas.
His Eminence received his Christian name upon his entrance in the Orthodox Church 65 years ago. He was received along with his sister, and they were given the names "Dmitri" and "Demetra," following a custom often attested in the lives of the Saints (for instance, we have recently celebrated the feast of the martyred siblings Eulampius and Eulampia). These are names common among the Orthodox, as is the norm: that is to say, names of saints with whom a Christian may form a real spiritual relationship through the normal channels of piety (attendance at the Divine Services on the feast, the possession of an icon of the saint, etc.). None of this particularly remarkable, and much less risible.
Also, His Eminence is a bishop of a Local Church of the Russian tradition, and as is customary, he is addressed as all bishops are in Slavic ecclesiastical traditions: "Vladika." If one sees problems with this, the next logical step is to question why Roman Catholic prelates insist on taking their title from French/Italian ("monsignor").
God grant us to measure our words, because we will give an account even for the least of them (cfr. St Matthew 12:36-37).
It is not uncharitable, of course, to point out that His Eminences's given name is Robert; this is done in many places. What is uncharitable is to gratuitously charge that his (or anybody's) taking a Christian name is a kind of psychological subterfuge attendant to delusions of grandeur.
And it is evident that you don't care, but this still doesn't make such disrespect (of His Eminence or of this Christian tradition) acceptable.
I don't see a lot of respect for Roman catholicism coming from your "tradition", Stefan. Until I see more of that, I'm less inclined to stifle my reflexive laughter at gandalfian types with exotic names.
after converting, Rod named himself after the pope. that's ... rich.
Dear Bubba, my last name is "Vazquez;" not "Vasquez." The former is a patronymic of the ancient Castillian name "Bela," while the latter is the patronymic of "Vasco." :-)
I referred to him as Benedict because this is who he said his patron saint was, after St Benedict of Nursia. I like to use, inasmuch as possible, a person's Christian name.
It was nice visiting with you people!
Bubba, I immediately thought of manifesto item 1 upon reading that. I guess he doesn't mind if we provide critiques of the Greeks? Or do you have to have been something once upon a time to properly ridicule it?
bubba! i only write lol when i'm actually lol-ing..
lol
POSITIVELY 4TH STREET just came on in the coffeehouse i'm at. bob dylan strikes again -- his words speak for catholics to rod dreher:
"You've got alot of nerve to say you are my friend
When I was down you just stood there grinning
You've got alot of nerve to say you got a helping hand to lend
You just want to be on the side that's winning
You see me on the street, you always act surprised
You say 'how are you, good luck' but you don't mean it
When you know as well as me you'd rather see me paralysed
Why don't you just come out once and scream it.
I know the reason why you talk behind my back
I used to be among the crowd you're in with
Do you take me for such a fool to think I'd make contact
With the one who tries to hide what he don't know to begin with?
No I do not feel that good when I see the heartbreaks you embrace
If I was a master thief, perhaps I'd rob them
You say you're not impressed with your position and your place
Don't you understand, that's not my problem
I wish that for just one time, you could walk inside my shoes
And just for that one moment, I could be you
Yeah, I wish that for just one time, you could walk inside my shoes
You'd know what a drag it is to see you...."
If anyone is interested, I posted a comment on my site. It is on a little different topic.
http://immaculatedirection.blogspot.com/
holy cow, I seriously forgot this stanza to positively fourth street:
"You say I let you down
You know it's not like that
If you're so hurt
Why then don't you show it
You say you lost your faith
But that's not where it's at
You had no faith to lose
And you know it"
bubba, kinda like Gandalf? are you, like Vladika Dmitri, "gandalfian"?
How does he know it isn't actually Saruman? Remember how much they resembled each other, even Gandalf's close friends were confused.
Well, I'd rather be Gandalized than scandalized, I guess. And I'd rather have a bottle in front o' me than a frontal lobotomy....
Oooooooo-K, Archibald, time for beddy-bye.
FYI, I have been having trouble with B-net all day. Kind of strange.
Diane and everyone,
Thanks again for the kind words.
“I still can't do organic veggies, though; sorry.”
I never saw Rod’s work as pretentious, because I am very familiar with all the arguments. Plus I have done this stuff for a long time.
Here is what I think is wrong with the organic movement. Like good business people they leveraged the sexy aspects of it. For example, food quality is supposed to be better. In the case of the tomato O-farmers grow the flavorful kinds which do not ride well to market. So they coddle them hence the expense. The other is no chemical pesticides which is a good thing. But there are organic pesticides, so I am not sure what all this means in the context of the organic branding, but I can’t say that they don’t use certain chemicals. But they might be orthodox chemicals. To me a conventional tomato grown in non-organic soil tastes and looks pretty much the same. A matter of fact I see really no difference other than the means of production. Flavor comes from variety. For shipping purposes the Organic fruits and veggies are picked before maximum ripeness to get to market. The vegetables sit for long periods of time too. That’s why Hole Foods is kind of a rip off.
What I like about organics is the process. Organic farmers treat the soil and environment well. An organic soil is full of life. It’s a self sustaining system, but I doubt it maximizes production yield.
Long story short, my point is there are ups and downs for both, and I believe that organic methods are more efficient and sustainable for the environment over time, while commercial means are more efficient and sustainable for the short term life of the business. (I put my conservative hat on at this point an make no further requirements of industry or society.)
So knowing my position, help me to understand what is wrong with organics in your view?
Hey D.don't worry about. I'm just trying to understand. I have a snobbiness post on my site. You can jump in there if you like.
diane, that's the USA's UN rep John Bolton. great that you compare him to a rank colonialist! lol!
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